Chuck Berry's Sound

[Ol Geezer]

Guys,

I know there are at least a few fans out there ...could you please share your opinions on how to best approach a classic Chuck Berry rhythm guitar sound?

I should start with the DOT, I suppose, but what pickup position to choose? And, perhaps just as important, what amp would be most true to what he used to use? I'm working with POD amp modelers, so I have a variety of simulations to choose from.

I'd like to hear from everyone who has an idea; I'm not in a hurry....

[JoMan]

Well, I can't give you a lot of facts concerning his gear from back when.
But you usually see him playing some Gibson, older pics show him playing the good old hollows with P-90's later on it's usually 355s and 335s. But considering the fact that those didn't come along til the end of the fifties, one must assume that he played most of his classic 50's recordings (like Roll Over Beethoven or Maybellene, which was his first record) with some P-90 equipped big Gibson.

I have had nice results playing my Casino. I have gotten very close to the kind of sound he had on "Carol" by using neck pickup (or middle position, but I'm not sure if there even was a three way switch for two pups back then) and turning the tone knob down to 6 or 7. I've tried that with both my Vox and my Twin Reverb and got some nice results, though I guess the best solution would probably be an old Tweed amp.

Johannes

EDIT: Well, actually bridge pickup sounds nice too... Just plug in that guitar and play, i think that's what it's about. Chuck Berry's sound is a very direct and honest sound and really goes down to his sensational playing.

[JoMan]

Well, I've given some more thought to the subject (hey Geezer, now you got my brains workin'... ) and I think it's really as simple as stated in my Edit above.

Just a nice hollow or semihollow guitar played through a nice, sweet and most of all honest amp will do the trick. The rest is really in your fingers. It's a very smooth, easygoing and relaxed style of playing. Depending on what sound exactly you want you can add a little bit of overdrive here and there, but really just a bit.

Well, I don't really know what I'm talking, it's just that feeling that I have to say something more about it, but then when I want to write it down, it just crumbles. All I'm saying here comes right out of my stomach, not my head. So don't consider it the ultimate truth.

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

...one must assume that he played most of his classic 50's recordings (like Roll Over Beethoven or Maybellene, which was his first record) with some P-90 equipped big Gibson...I've tried that with both my Vox and my Twin Reverb and got some nice results, though I guess the best solution would probably be an old Tweed amp.

So then Casino rather than DOT? Thanks for heading me in the right direction, Johannes! I was wondering about that.

The VOX AC-30 and Twin Reverb are both available, as well as various old tweed Fenders and Gibsons (my guitar tech has an actual old Fender, but alas he moved away...).

[JoMan]

olgeezer said:

So then Casino rather than DOT? Thanks for heading me in the right direction, Johannes! I was wondering about that.

Well, the 335 and its deluxe sisters 345/355 weren't available before 1958 (of course neither was the casino, which was introduced some time around 1960 as far as I know, but the casino has the "old-fashioned" P-90's) and they featured the Gibson Humbuckers. So his early recordings should feature some P-90ish Gibsons.
Most of his real famous hits were recorded before that, Beethoven, Maybellene, Reelin and Rockin, School Days, Rock'n'Roll Music, then there's Johnny B. Goode and Sweet Little Sixteen from 1958. Carol is also from '58. So those are almost certainly NOT 335s.

However, I can't remember seeing a post-early-60s-photo of him playing anything except a 335/345/355. So, you know, you can't go wrong with those either. You probably know what John Lennon said about his Rickenbacker after seeing Toots playing one: "If it's good enough for him, it's f**kin' good enough for me."

The real deal would probably be a Gibson 175 or 295, something like this, but that's kinda pricy.

As I said, my Casino has served me well, but I don't have another 335ish guitar to try.

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

The real deal would probably be a Gibson 175 or 295, something like this, but that's kinda pricy.
As I said, my Casino has served me well, but I don't have another 335ish guitar to try.

Thank you again for all your thoughts, Johannes. As you probably know, I do have a few Epis to choose from. But it makes sense to go with a P-90, and especially to use the neck position since I believe the earliest electrified guitars were modified jazz boxes with only the one pickup anyway.

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

...his early recordings should feature some P-90ish Gibsons.

Cool; but now I'm wondering if you know what he would strum with -- did he use his bare thumb, a thumbpick, or a flatpick?

[JoMan]

i'm pretty sure he just used a normal pick. he usually goes from playing rhythm to playing lead and back to rhythm etc.
I doubt that he plays his lead parts with bare fingers. and I have a DVD of a concert from some time in the 60s I believe where he plays with a pick.

Are you involved in a project playing R&R rhythm guitar? or are you just broadening your horizon?

[JoMan]

By the way, I've found something on his early gear. A book I borrowed from a friend of mine called "Masters of Rhythm Guitar" says he used to play a Gibson ES-350T, which is, as I've suspected, a big Gibson with P-90's, later also available with Humbuckers. The book also says he played Fender Bassmans and later on Marshalls.
The bit about the 350 is without a doubt true, I've seen lots of photographs of him playing one.

www.chuckberry.com/about/photopages/027.html (has humbuckers)
www.chuckberry.com/about/photopages/023.html (has P-90s)

in the same gallery you'll find him playing an old Epi archtop, i'm no expert on these, so I can't tell you what model.

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

...The book also says he played Fender Bassmans and later on Marshalls.

joman said:

i'm pretty sure he just used a normal pick....Are you involved in a project playing R&R rhythm guitar? or are you just broadening your horizon?

Thanks for posting the photo links -- though in the small pic at the top right it appears he may be using a bare thumb, the classic performance poses in the larger images suggest a flatpick indeed.

Yes, I've also noticed Brian Setzer using Fender Bassmans, and I used to use one myself as a keyboard amp. Very clean and true tone.

I'm a songwriter, rather than a performer, but I do play on my recordings. Mrs. Geezer suggested my next tune be in a style like Chuck Berry, whose 45s she used to adore as a youngster.

[JoMan]

Will that one be on the Arkayix site?

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

Will that one be on the Arkayix site?

Absolutely... you know about that? Remember, though, it takes me months to write and record a new tune.

[JoMan]

well, I'm in no hurry ...

Still, Go Geezer Go!

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

well, I'm in no hurry ... Still, Go Geezer Go!

Just bought a 2-CD set of Chuck Berry GOLD -- research for me, plus a gift for the Mrs....

[Ol Geezer]

joman said:

well, I'm in no hurry ... Still, Go Geezer Go!

Johannes and all my EpiFriends:

I just put up a first mix of "Come Ride in my DeSoto" on my ARKAYIX page at SoundClick if you'd care to have a listen.

It kind of moved away from a pure Chuck Berry sound and towards early Sun Records, but was quite a fun project to do. Thanks for all your help and advice....