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Post by hcoll on Jul 14, 2004 19:44:55 GMT -5
...just finished posting a compaint over on Epi's Forum at Customer Service.......... ...I ordered a Dove NA six months ago...after waiting soooo long...seeing Oct '04 availability dates on some other retailers' sites...I had all but forgotten about it...well it was delivered today............ ...everything looked great except the strings felt about as tight as my AJ-10...got out the tape measure and found that the neck scale is 25.5"...same as most other cookie-cutter acoustics that I could have purchased during the last six months...they advertise it in their website and catalogs as 24.74"...authorized-Gibson copy short scale......... ...yes...it was ordered through a online retailer...guess I had to find out the hard way...learn a lesson from me folks...fortunately I have a hassle free 45 day return policy......... ...so why am I bitchin'...'cause I feel like I've been lied to...that's why...the pointy-haired boss is probably checking with his Legal Dept to make sure that all specifications are subject to change........... ...bet I'll probably get a response quicker here than on the orificial site...any takers...........  This photograph was borrowed from the official Epiphone website www.epiphone.com |
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Post by Smooth on Jul 14, 2004 19:54:57 GMT -5
I'll pull a few tommorrow and measure one hcoll. There was some issue of scale length on a few acoustic basses a while back but those never went out. Your Dove may have gotten past an inspector, hopefully its an isolated event (not that it makes you feel any better about it). I'll let you know what i find out.
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Post by hcoll on Jul 14, 2004 20:11:57 GMT -5
...thanks Smooth...........
...I had forgotten about our "insider"..........
...I appreciate your help............
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Post by spacecowboy on Jul 15, 2004 20:05:14 GMT -5
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Post by Steelpriest on Jul 16, 2004 2:25:47 GMT -5
Well, I think the 45 days return policy covers any kind of not being satisfied with the product. I think you should return this guitar. Well, if it was a different color or some minor details but a different scale length is indeed a heavy argument to return the guitar immediately.  |
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Post by hcoll on Jul 16, 2004 3:53:14 GMT -5
...Steelpriest......
...thank you for posting the picture of the Epiphone Dove with its spec's........
...relatively few guitars come with a short neck- scale...especially in this price range............
...I already have a guitar with a 25.5" standard neck-scale...my AJ-10............
...there was no other reason for me to even consider this guitar..........
...and yes...thank God for the hassle free...no questions asked...45 day return policy..............
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Post by hcoll on Jul 17, 2004 8:16:48 GMT -5
...I'm about to make someone very happy...including the pointy-haired boss at Epiphone...yup...I'm going to return this to the retailer...they've got a waiting list for these...somebody's going to feel like it's Christmas in July...................
...before I pack it up...thought I'd give you all a little review...................
...this guitar is absolutely stunning in appearance...the inlays in the saddle...split parallelograms...white bindings...are all beautifully done...the neck is completely bound...........
...the back/sides of the body/neck are done in red...this is the same color as the old Dove with the heritage cherry sunburst...except now the top is natural...............
...the pictures of the pickguard's figures do not do it justice...the green leaves and red flowers do not show up very well...not sure how these would hold up after usage.............
...comes a large strap button already installed on the underside of the neck.................
...the grover's tuned up well...as they should...........
...the sound is definitely loud and bright...it would definitely hold its own in a group of folk guitarists such as I play with on Sundays...the strings feel heavy and stiff...it's a new guitar...I would have to change the strings to what I'm using on my AJ-10...Martin SP extra lights...to be totally impartial...........
...it would be very interesting to find a Gibson Dove and do a comparison between the two...since this particular Epi actually has a standard neck scale like its expensive namesake...........
...extra lights...I'm a wus...I know...actually that's so my AJ has a similar feel as I switch between it and my Dot for music lesson practice..........
...here's something that I found interesting...the Dove is square-shouldered while the AJ-10 is round-shouldered...they both fit into the same case despite the different shaped bodies...my hat's off to the designer who figured that one out...................
...my one and only complaint is the neck scale...sure wish it was the as advertised 24 3/4"...maybe Epiphone will go back to it's Korean subcontractor and have them memorize the old saying..."measure twice...cut once".........
...all in all...the Dove is a great guitar for its price...definitely would have been a big step up from what I'm currently using.............
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Post by Smooth on Jul 17, 2004 9:20:00 GMT -5
hcoll i did get to measure the one and only Dove in the DC and it had the same scales as yours. We are checking on the specs and hopefully will get this sorted out. On a side note, i went to Gibson OAI (@opry Mills mall) and measured the Gibson Dove's scale...25 1/2". Seems the Epi is a direct copy of the Gibson Dove and maybe the catalogue and website are wrong (wouldn't be the first time for either to be wrong). Now the Gibson Hummingbird measured 24.75" but i have not gotten to measure one of ours yet. Sorry i didn't reply sooner.
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Post by hcoll on Jul 17, 2004 10:56:39 GMT -5
...hey Smooth............
...thanks for getting back to me...I've been packing this up...was just on my way out the door when I thought I'd check this board one more time...............
...rather interesting...I have the last three Epi catalogs each one states the same short-neck scale...guess I'm the first to notice...probably not...everybody else is saying..."WOW...Just like the Gibson model"..............
...one other observation...correct me if I'm wrong...each neck scale would involve two different length necks with differently spaced frets and different bridge unit locations in order to center the twelfth fret............
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Post by Steelpriest on Jul 17, 2004 23:26:10 GMT -5
Hcoll, you´re absolutely right with your observation, I guess the guitars were always like this, the korean luthiers have the correct measurements and specifications in their manufacturing plants, only the catalogue is wrong.  |
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Post by hcoll on Jul 18, 2004 16:32:53 GMT -5
...Hey Steelpriest.................
...SCENARIO #1......the typo.....................................(the good)..............
...hope you're right...hard to believe...after all these years that it's a typo...think of all the people that bought The Dove and didn't notice...............
...do I get a commemorative cardboard Epi cap for noticing.................
...SCENARIO #2......the forgotten clause..................(the bad)...........
...a fluke in the Legal Dept...Epi forgot to specify the neck scale in The Dove NA's production contract...without specifying the short-neck scale...the subcontractor luthier would imply the standard neck-scale length in it's absence.................
...my distaste for lawyers makes this my favorite............
...WORST CASE SCENARIO......the rogue.....................(the ugly)...........
...on an assembly line that's already producing masonite-layered solid bodies during the night shift to improve the profit margins...a rogue subcontractor luthier decides that no one will notice if the standard scale length is substituted on a new model variation..."substitution improves profit margin because there's a lot more standard neck-scales laying around...all that is necessary is to add the headstock...it's just a production slip up...besides...Durtie Amedican Dowg takes business away from us and gives it to our old enemy...the Chinese Communist"....................
...you know the lawyers drooling for this one.............
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Post by Smooth on Jul 18, 2004 16:55:45 GMT -5
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Post by hcoll on Jul 18, 2004 17:33:26 GMT -5
...lol...Hey smooth........
...yeh...the legal eagles in action...I'm sure it's on the 2002...2004...catalogs too.........
...and of course it has to be like that when your dealing with the consumer public...Epiphone has a duty to its stockholders to protect itself from frivolous "hot coffee in the lap" lawsuits..."my John Lennon Signature EJ-160E doesn't sound anything like The Beatles"......etc........
...my only problem is that this is the second time I struck out shopping for an intermediate priced short-scale...my first was two years ago when I waited...and waited for six months...only to find out that the AJ-45s was no longer in production...does anyone besides me see a pattern here...............
...the silver lining to that prior experience was my local dealer cut me a deal on my Dot because he held my half-down deposit for six months...I ought to recalculate the intersest on that...maybe it wasn't such a good deal..........
...I haven't given up on my quest...just a little wiser...I hope................
...besides...in the past six months I've grown very fond of my AJ-10...can seem to find anything that sounds as good to my ears...might be the old dirty strings..............
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Post by zep on Jul 19, 2004 13:34:57 GMT -5
That's customer support in action ;D.
It's too bad that you can't seem to find the guitars that you are looking for. I'd suggest going to the local guitar store and bringing a tape measure, but that doesn't work so well with hard to find models that aren't in stock.
With interests rates the way they are in the US, half the price of a dot over six months wouldn't acrue much interest...but a store holding your money for that long should be nice enough to give you a discount for the inconvenience.
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Post by hcoll on Jul 19, 2004 20:12:11 GMT -5
...Hey Zep.....................
...actually...I was only being facetious...the amount my local retailer knocked off The Dot more than made up for what I lost on the time/use of my deposit...that's why they're still my local retailer...he won't admit it...but my music teacher may have had something to do with it since he was telling me I ought to have an electric for my lessons...they're easier to play than acoustics................................
...the deposit issue was the reason I thought I'd try mail order this time along with the return policy...my credit card account wasn't charged until they shipped...the only hitch is you can't see it up front...and it'll cost you to send it back....................
...as far as the tape measure goes...yup...got it right in my music lesson case...along with the tuner/w 12" cable...metronome...mini tool kit...picks...music lessons/books.................
...hard to find models...they sure are...like I said before...the mail order retailer that I returned The Dove NA to...has a waiting list.....................
...as I'm constantly reminded by the SPAM I receive...SIZE DOES MATTER...besides Gibson-Epiphone...there seems to be only a handful of guitars offered in short-scale...all or most Seagulls are...Martin produces the OOO-28 Sir Eric and its mahogany twin...the OOO-18...in the past Guild produced at least one (F-50?) but not since Fender acquired them...to my knowledge...that's it...out of the entire acoustic guitar market that's not a very big percentage...my opinion is that most of the others are cookie-cutter models...out of the same mold...that mold is a set of parameters/formulas established in the 19th Century by Antonio de Torres for making a bright/loud acoustic guitar...yup...that's where that 25.5" standard neck scale came from...............
...as far as customer support goes...let's give Smooth a chance...as far as the Epi Forum goes...that's why we're all over here.............
...hmmm...I do think it's rather strange that we haven't heard from any other Dove owners who either agree/disagree with my measurements...................
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